Nature vs Nurture

      19 Comments on Nature vs Nurture

I’m writing this post because I believe that we have reached a point in Gavin‘s life where but has become very clear that nature has won. 

For those of you unfamiliar with nature vs nurture here’s the best way I can explain it.

Gavin‘s biological father is sociopath.  Most,  if not all of Gavin‘s psychological issues were genetic birthday presents,  from his biological father,  Nick.  The aspergers is likely linked to Lizze,  just to be fair.

Without intervention,nature would like haveGavingrow up to be like Nick. 



However, we had always hoped that by nurturing Gavin and providing unconditional love and support, we would be able to derail that plans that nature had in store for him.

Does that make sense?

Having said that, I want to make it clear that Gavin has a great many fantastic qualities. He’s bright, creative, helpful and polite. These are just a few things off the top of my head.

The problem is that Gavin has a very dark side to him that is becoming more and more prominent. In many ways, this dark side is winning and becoming his dominant personality, if you will.

You are likely already familiar with the meltdowns we deal with on an almost daily basis. He’s also becoming very vocally degrading to Lizze. Basically, he treats her like garbage and as time goes on, it’s getting worse and worse. He is however, very careful not to do this in my presence because he knows how quickly I would put him in his place.

It’s very much like he’s 2 people. When he’s around people that are more likely to give him what he wants, he’s polite and respectful. However, when it comes to people that hold him accountable and don’t let him do whatever he wants, he is very, very unpleasant.

This is very much in line with Nick. He’s one way when people are watching and another when they aren’t. Nick also likes to manhandle the women in his life.

This has been coming on for a very long time and actually started when he very young. He began targeting women with violence and would assault Lizze frequently. While it’s been a long time since he physically went after Lizze, the trend continues.

We have done everything we can possibly do to help Gavin overcome Nicks legacy. He’s been in counciling for many years and we have done nothing but love, nurture and support him.

While we have no intention of giving up, we are realizing that sometimes, nature can’t be overcome.

It breaks my heart to even say this but it’s the truth.

**Thanks for reading**

       -Lost and Tired

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About Rob Gorski

Father to 3 with Autism and husband to my best friend. Oh...and creator fo this blog. :-)

  

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Tam
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Tam

I don't know if you guys are religious at all, but there is obviously a spiritual component here and it would probably greatly benefit you if it could be addressed. That said, the fact that you are willing to say this to the world tells me that you've probably felt this way for a while, and you feeling this way, no matter how you've tried to cover it around Gavin, has probably been apparent to him on some level (whether consciously or not). Your fear that he's going to become his father probably has and will continue to have an… Read more »

Karen
Guest
Karen

You have no idea what this family goes through. Until you have walked one minute in their shoes you have no right to criticise or judge. This is not helpful and you should keep your negative opinions to yourself.

Rob Gorski
Admin

Tam, Until your in my shoes, you shouldn't judge. I respect your opinion but you missed the entire point. This in no way influences our treatment of him. His behavior however, is a different story. Gavin'/s behavior absolutely impacts the way he's treated. There is no way to avoid that. You completely missed the point of this post and took it personally when it wasn't meant that way. I was using that situation to explain nature vs nurture. It's really easy to be upset by something when your not living it everyday. We don't view Gavin in regards to his… Read more »

Tam
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Tam

I am not arguing whether there is a nature vs nurture issue or not, of course there is. And I'm not saying you shouldn't share your feelings and struggles, you have every right to do that. But this wasn't a "we're struggling with this issue" kind of post. This was a "we have no intention of giving up" but "nature can’t be overcome" kind of post. This read as we're going to keep struggling, but we've given up expecting anything more of him than to turn into his father's son. That attitude, where you say you're not giving up, but… Read more »

Rob Gorski
Admin

Tam, once again you have read way to into this post. I never said we don\’t expect better. I said that sometimes nature can\’t be overcome. It\’s very clear that some things are hardwired and can\’t be changed. It\’s also unfair to say it would be like me reading a post like this from my father. Gavin literally you not understand most, of not all of this blog. It\’s not his fault, but it\’s the truth. After 10 years of struggle, I have learned to deal in reality because it works out best. Otherwise, we would continue to pour the… Read more »

Rob Gorski
Admin

I would like to say that Tam has been a long time reader and supporter. This particular post must have struck a nerve with her and that\’s okay.

I hope we are still friends as I value that friendship. 🙂

Megs
Guest
Megs

I studied Psychology in college and though it was 10 years ago, i doubt much has changed in the nature vs nurture debate. Its still pretty open but it seemed to me that about 40% of behaviors are nature, 40% nurture and 20% what the individual does with the two. All of your faithful readers know that you and Lizzy are trying your hardest to do the best you can for Gavin. *hugs* to you all.

Julia
Guest

Tam,

Do you realise that it’s not Nick’s personality they’re worried about? Sociopathy is not a choice or a personality trait, it’s a mental health disorder. Nick’s brain was not wired right, Not by choice, but by DNA, half of which unfortunately has been passed to Gavin. So now Gavin’s brain isn’t wired right and rob and Lizze have done EVERYTHING in their power to combat this and try and subvert the course of nature. I don’t see this post as defeatist, more just acceptance of a battle hard fought.

Rob Gorski
Admin

Julia,

That was very well said. Perhaps I wasn\’t as clear as I thought. You explained it much better than I did.

MaryAnn
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MaryAnn

Rob and Lizze, I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through so much pain and sorrow. I know there’s nothing I can say to help ease the pain. But I want you to know that you have gone far and beyond to the point of sacrificing your very lives for Gavin and the boys. I mean what more can you do? If that tendency to act as a sociopath overrules his recognition that other people deserve respect and not rude behavior…there’s little else you can do. And I’m sorry but until other people are in your shoes, they have… Read more »

Kathy Buehler
Member
Kathy Buehler

I have 5 birth and 5 adopted kids. My grand plan was to give the 5 adopted kids the benefit of my "stellar" parenting skills, and I would have "saved" 5 kids from a life full of difficulties that their birth parents faced. Yeah, that did not work as well as I had hoped. One of my birth sons always said, "nature vs nurture. Nature wins every time". That used to irritate me to no end, given that I was pouring my life into changing the facts. Well, guess what! He was right. Sure, I did some good along the… Read more »

Diane
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Diane

I don't know any background on Tam, except that Rob has said she is a long-time reader of his, but I don't agree with her attitude. Until you have lived in his shoes, or mine as a matter of fact as I share many experiences as he does, how dare you question anything he does or says or feels? I don't know how Rob responded so nicely to you, but I know why. I, on the other hand, need to end commenting right now, or I won't be nice, because I don't have to.

Rob Gorski
Admin

🙂

Renoard
Guest
Renoard

I've read this whole discussion and all I can say wow, can there be a clearer case of Apples and oranges. First off, I want to express my empathy to Lost and Tired. It can't be easy raising another man's biological child in the best of circumstances. The heart breaks you are facing must be enormous. But it is clear that Tam is having one conversation and the rest of the thread is responding to a completely different issue than the one she raised. What may have seemed like and attack to you and your readers, seems to me to… Read more »

Rob Gorski
Admin

Renoard, Look, I appreciate what you are saying, however the problem I think people had with Tam\’s opinion is partly because of how she presented herself and also because while what she\’s saying, in principle is true, she assumes that we are guilty of the same thing. The reality is that I don\’t see Gavin as an outsider. I don\’t see Gavin as Nicks son. I\’ve raised Gavin as my own since he was just over a year old. I\’m the only father he\’s ever known. It was Lizze, myself and Gavin for many years before the other boys came… Read more »

Kathy Buehler
Member
Kathy Buehler

Lost and Tired, I already commented on this yesterday, but I just keep thinking about this. Nobody can quite understand how it is to keep at , say a certain behavior, over and over, for years on end, with no change. Frustrating is an understatement. I just know what you mean, and no parent likes that spot. We all want to be that guiding figure in a child's life. One therapist (one of many over the years) told me to accept that I may not be the person who teaches the lesson I tried so hard to impart. Maybe said… Read more »

Rob Gorski
Admin

Thank you Kathy. Well said.

Cassandra S
Guest
Cassandra S

Rob, I completely GET it!!! With all three of our children being adopted, we also see the difference in nurture vs. nature in each of our children!

Rob Gorski
Admin

Thank you. So many people don\’t.