Confronting negative behavior

We had a very interesting session with Dr. Patti tonight.  We discussed Gavin’s interactions with Lizze. Gavin is very mean and disrespectful to her and it’s really getting to a point that Lizze is quite upset by this and frankly,  so am I.

When with a child that has #Autism or maybe other mental health issues like Gavin,  it’s so difficult to tell what is what.

Factor in puberty and the teenage years and the water surrounding certain behavioral issues get even murkier. The Lost and Tired family is there right now with Gavin.

Dr.  Patti,  Lizze and myself sat down with Gavin tonight and had a very open,  honest and disturbing conversation with him.  It was made clear to him from the start that he wasn’t in trouble but that we needed him to tell us the truth.

We wanted to know why it was that he was so mean to Lizze. It’s very clear to everyone that he’s targeting her. The question is why,  why is he targeting his mother?

It was obvious that Gavin was not being truthful with us tonight.  His answers were such that he wouldn’t be incriminating himself. Dr. Patti called him out a few times when he was trying to dodge a question. When he got upset,  and he did get upset,  it wasn’t because he was sorry for what he had done,  it was because he was caught.

I realize that it’s hard to imagine an unassuming child like Gavin being capable of such behavior but sadly, it’s true.

When all was said and done,  Dr. Patti asked Gavin what we had been talking about and he said that he couldn’t remember anything that we had spoken about.  To say I’m frustrated would be like calling the Grand Canyon a ditch. 

If nothing else was accomplished,  at least he knows that I will not tolerate disrespectful behavior from anyone towards my wife,  period…..

Dr.  Patti said that we have to stay strong with the accountability. At this point,  that’s all we can do. Gavin hasn’t had a full blown meltdown since returning home a few weeks ago. That’s a great thing,  however,  we still have things that need to be worked on. 

**Thanks for reading**

       -Lost and Tired

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This was posted via WordPress for Android, courtesy of Samsung’s Galaxy S III. Please forgive any typos. I do know how to spell but auto-correct is working against me.

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caguerin

No, I'm not having  bad day.  I was referencing the comment by JenniferWhynot and you thanking her it as opposed to saying that those incidents have nothing to do with autism. I understand your son has other issues but  I also think your son is very young to be put in the same category as those people.  Wouldn't you like to think the early intervention you're seeking will be the success story?  Isn't that why you are going to these great lengths?  I don't think I missed the point at all.  I have been navigating the world of autism for almost 19 years.  We can add epilepsy onto that for the past 5 years. I have gone months at a time and still do without stringing together more than 3 to 4 hours sleep in a day. Struggle doesn't even come close to describing the teen years.  I will not equate my experience to yours, none of our experiences are the same.  I won't tell you mine is harder or easier.  I won't tell you my personal struggles, my marital struggles, my family struggles or my financial struggles but I've had them.  They are my own.  I will tell you that have read your blog for the a couple of months now.  Most of your posts reference Gavin and his struggles.  I have seen references to the movie "The Good Son."  Yes you put a disclaimer on it.  I guess I just read things differently than your other followers.  The anger I read in the posts does not mean I think you are an abusive parent.  In fact I think it would be abnormal if you weren't angry.  I am not a cult follower and will not say you are perfect.  No one is, I am the first one in that line.  I simply said that anger is a vicious circle, you might not see what you are putting out.  It doesn't have to be with a blow but feelings come through.  Many times you get what you give.  I see that you only want those who pat you on the back and tell you how great you are.  Well I wish you luck, I feel pain for your struggle, I do not wish this on anyone.  You are just beginning the hormonal phase, I've actually been through it.  It's tough, they don't know where to go with their emotions.  I admire you for wanting to protect your wife.  I just don't agree with some of things I read, I'm sorry.  If you are complacent with remarks made to your blog, I think you agree.  If you reference a movie such as "The Good Son", yes I'll take it negatively.  If you say you don't want him turning out like his birth father then I think you have chosen his destiny for him before he has had a chance to live it.   I do believe that nurture can conquer nature most of the time.  I guess that's the drawback of making your private life public.  I will unsubscribe to your blog as we obviously don't see eye to eye and not only are you not open to constructive criticism but you feel it necessary to degrade someone in return.  I do wish your boys the best.  I'd post a smiley face too but I don't chose to insult you.

Carlyoung

in regards to nurture vs nature.  My eldest daughter lived with her mom until she was 12.  At which time, she came to live with my wife and I.  Not amount of nurturing can undo the damage that her mother caused.  My daughter is 18 and leaving for college. 
 
if you don't like the blog author to respond to your comments, then why comment at all?
 
my two oldest boys have autism diagnoses, and are 13 and 14.  I know what puberty is doing to them.

lostandtired

 @Carlyoung I have to agree. In some cases nurture can win out over nature. However, and this is a big however, in many cases, such as yours and mine, no amount of love or nurturing will have any impact. 
You cannot stop a child from becoming a sociopath. If you could, you and I would have been all over that. 
 
That doesn't mean that we don't try anyway. That's because we love our children. 

lostandtired

I honestly didn't mean any disrespect. I'm sorry to see you leave, I truly am. I don't like to be divided by differences. Having said that, you seem to be very set in your opinions, whether they are right or wrong. I think that you have taken what was said completely out of context and taken it much farther and in a completely different direction than was intended.
 
For the record, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do for a child with sociopathy. No amount of love or nurturing will have ANY impact. That is a fact. I respect your positive outlook but in some cases it's simply misguided. 

caguerin

I'm more than a little bit disturbed that you would compare a child with autism to the people who have committed such atrocities at Columbine, Tuscon or Aurora.  Autism does not equal sociopath.  First off, children/teenagers lie.  Think about your childhood.  It is our job as a parent to teach them better.  Children/teenagers will play parents off each other to get their way given the opportunity.  It is the job of parents to be a team and not allow them to get away with this.  A child with autism will have greater difficulty navigating these areas as the hormones hit because they are socially inept.  They have a harder time learning the correct social protocol.  Tantrums will become worse because they don't know how to express their emotions.  Why does Gavin target your wife?  She is an easy target.  Whether it is because she doesn't have as a commanding a voice or her follow through isn't consistent, who knows, but Gavin does.  My daughter never dared to hit my husband but she did me.  Why?  She knew I would never hit her back.  Her dad works 70 hours a week and has a booming voice, he'd never hit her but she was never sure of that.  This doesn't make your son a sociopath.  It makes him a child with sensory, social, language and other neurological issues trying to navigate a very difficult world.  My daughter is now 19, the tantrums have eased and I haven't been hit in a year.  She would never take up arms and shoot at innocent victims.  Don't confuse issues, you are doing  disservice to the autistic community.  I suggest you read your posts and read how angry you sound at him.  It's a vicious cycle.  I get the anger.  I've been angry at God, myself, my husband, my daughter, at the world, you name it.  It doesn't get you anywhere.  He will only feed off your anger as you are feeding off his.  I hope that you talk to someone too, as parents of autistic children we all need too.  It's a frustrating job.  I wish you luck.  I understand having issues on top of the autism, my daughter has epilepsy, I have no aids or babysitters.  My husband works long hours to pay for her extra needs, I don't have time to blog and if weren't for school I'd never have a break.  We're all tired.

lostandtired

Thank you for your opinion but I'm not really sure that you understand what you are talking about. I have never related to autism to sociopathy. They are to very different things, however, in Gavin's case that are both very real. 
 
I suggest you read a bit more and do your research on me before you make false statements like you just did. 
 
Again, I thank you for your opinion, misguided as it may be. 🙂
 

lostandtired

By the way, where in the world did you come up with the Columbine, Tuscon or Aurora references. I never said anything like that and never would. It's more than a bit concerning that you would not only put words in my mouth but make reference to such tragedies.  
 
Clearly you have not been around long enough to understand what I'm doing so I'm not going to take offense to anything you have said. Having said that, I would suggest that you not go around questioning things with which you have no experience with. 
 
Gavin is heading down the road to becoming a sociopath. That is a fact. This is completely independent of aspergers. This has been diagnosed be very educated professionals who have much more detailed knowledge of Gavin than someone reading a few blog posts and not being comfortable with what they read. 
 
Be grateful you only have to read this and you don't have to live it. Whether you're comfortable with his diagnoses or not, it doesn't make them any less real. 
 
Wow……
 
Please have a nice evening and if you would like to know more, I would suggest you look through my archives. 🙂 

Carlyoung

I have a child with autism diagnosis and a sociopath diagnosis.  I also have two boys with just the autism diagnosis.  We aren't angry at our situations, we are merely ordinary people trying to live under extraordinary circumstances. 
 
In the time that I have known the Gorski's, I don't think that i have ever thought of him as being angry at his kids.  There is a difference between being angry with a circumstance and being angry with the child.
 
Our son has no qualms about hitting anyone with anything.  I am a stay at home dad who does the best he can with the supports that are available in our community.  I include the @lostandtired  site in that list of supports.  I can come here and read about how the Gorski's are dealing with a situation or behavior and apply that to our situation or behavior.  Sometimes the result is good, sometimes not.  But how would I know unless someone had traveled that road before me?Thank you @lostandtired for speaking.  You make me feel like it is safe to speak about our situation as well.Mental health issues can't be kept in the dark.  At some point, these kids are going to be adults.  Not all children with Autism are socially inept.  Most are, but not all.
 
I make time to blog, it helps me deal with the reality of having a sociopath in my home.

JenniferWhynott

I believe you are talking about my comment and I was not referring to children with autism to the issues of columbine and so forth. I was talking about the mental issues Gavin deals with on a regular basis. Sorry for the confusion.

lostandtired

 @JenniferWhynott Either way, I don't think that anything you said was meant to be taken the way it was. I wondered where that came from. It saddens me that she missed the entire point of what you were saying. 
Maybe shes having a bad day 🙂

KeelyCorinneMiller

I am so sorry you are going through this. To say that my daughter, Jessica, and Gavin are similar would be an understatement. I would expand more, but today has been the day of hell with Jessica and I am so done:(
 

lostandtired

 @KeelyCorinneMiller I certainly understand what that's like. Please know that we are all here for you should you need anything. 🙂
 
Here's to hoping tomorrow is a better day 🙂

Chloe123

 @lostandtired  @KeelyCorinneMiller Keely do you blog as well? And I agree with Rob, I will be thinking of both of you and hoping tomorrow is a better day for all. 🙂

lostandtired

 @KeelyCorinneMiller When you are feeling better, I would be interested in hearing more. We have not met very many kids like Gavin. Let me know if I can do anything 🙂

Carlyoung

 @KeelyCorinneMiller My son is a lot like Gavin, yet… different.  We are here for you to talk to at any point.  just let us know. 

JenniferWhynott

I applaud your honesty while protecting the integrity of your children. Please know that some of us understand that as awesome and beautiful children are sometimes there is a glitch and  things can be very wrong in the brain. Gavin is one of these precious kids. As his parents you are trying the best to do what you can to help him understand how he is expected to behave in public as a citizen. I could only wish that there were more parents who recognized that something is not quite right with their child and did something about it or that our government could understand and see that these children do exist and need help to become productive citizens as they enter adulthood. This is why we have incidences like columbine, tucson, and aurora. The stigma for mental illness in this country is still high and not recognized by our government as an issue so educating the public is not done . So many people do not see the signs of mental illness. It is clear that you love your family and want the best for them. Thank you for educating so many and making our world a better place
 

lostandtired

 @JenniferWhynott I truly appreciate that. Thank you very much. I think that we all do what we can with the cards we've been dealt in life. 
 
Thank you again. 🙂

Carlyoung

Marc likes to pair mom and dad against each other… so we have learned that we never agree to anything without first consulting the other.  He does this thing where he will push buttons on me, then walk away with a smirk on his face.  Mom asked him if he was happy that I was upset, and he says "I have no idea what you are talking about."  Or the infamous, "I don't know remember saying that." Keep up the accountability.

lostandtired

 @Carlyoung I'm sorry that we can relate but at the same time find comfort in it. Carl, you know first hand what I'm talking about. It's amazing and scary what our kids are capable of this type of behavior. 
Thank you for reminding me that I'm not alone. Hang in there my friend 🙂

Carlyoung

 @lostandtired today has been a good day. We learned that Marc is number 3 on a waiting list for placement in the residential facility in the city near our home.  This is such a blessing, I can't begin to describe how happy I was to hear it.  Yet, it breaks my heart to know that he will be there for at least a year, and that I have to put him there.

lostandtired

 @Carlyoung I know how difficult that is. We aren't to far off. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is because of his health complications. Otherwise, we would be in the very same or similar boat. It's bittersweet because it's the best thing for all involved but at the same time, it feels horrible as a parent to even consider sending your child away.
 
Hang in there my friend. 

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